Do you want to host the WF workflow and rules designer?

If so, fill in this survey and tell the WF team what you want. They *really* want to know.

I took the survey and was disappointed.

I don't currently host the WF workflow designer because most of my applications are currently web based, and there is currenly not web-based designer.

K2 currently solves this niche, but would be better to have a web-based workflow designer - something in silverlight would be cool.

I'd much rather host the WF workflow and rules lucy.

Desi - no way!

Haven't we been here before? I refer you to:-

http://www.sellsbrothers.com/news/showTopic.aspx?ixTopic=2127

As I said then (last October):-

1) No-code / XOML-only workflows don't fly. Try using the Replicator activity without writing wire-up code...

2) The Designer can't be practically used outside of Visual Studio (ties in with point 1). Plus the Designer is just too damn technical even ignoring all the plumbing code you have to write. So the Designer is just not fit for consumption by end users.

3) Although suited for developers only, why should I as a developer use the Designer? I can do the same thing in C# much more easily.

--

Some people in Microsoft are aware of the Designer's crippling limitations. And some ISVs who have tried to host the Designer themselves have gone down that path for many months, before realizing that it just won't fly and having to roll their own.

MS was hoping/expecting that a third party would step in with a really great and applicable Designer that would be made available to others as a control/component. That hasn't happened, AFAIK. I'm not surprised, because I just can't see any point or benefit in using the Workflow Foundation in the first place. I asked back in October "So what IS the benefit of using WF?"... and never got an answer.

WF v1 is a very simple, indeed simplistic, beginning. I hope and expect it to get good over the coming years/decades. Look how long it took for MS to get it right over SOA and comms, to come up with the wonder that is WCF... a long, long time.

For now I see little point in taking questionnaires like this one.

OK, I'm still not going to do the survey, but here is (hopefully) some more constructive feedback:-

1) A Designer should be usable by non-technical people. The current one is hopelessly technical and complicated. We rejected it as completely inappropriate for our clients to have to use.

2) No workflow activity should require code-behind, because it ain't going to be available outside of Visual Studio.

3) Ergo, it follows from the above, that a new Designer should be considered only in conjunction with a whole new version of the Workflow Foundation, and not in isolation. Take a holistic view. The current version does contain activities that require code behind (e.g. Replicator).

4) Take a look at an example of the Designer hosted outside of VS - e.g. WF Pad - and ask yourself is it usable? What is wrong? What can't be done? What can't easily be done by non-technnical people? The limitations quickly become apparent.

5) On the whole, dog-food a whole load more. Task a team in MS to create a high-level, business-oriented, workflow-based application (both WinForms and Web), and have them use WF and its Designer. Listen to their feedback very carefully.